---

※ 引述《Dreamho (☞Unlimitation☜)》之銘言：
: 禁止各報章雜誌新聞記者及網站轉錄截錄抄襲
: 給不想看全文的，幫你們截取有提到柯文哲或台灣的部分
: 不代表本人立場
: https://imgur.com/a/QSD3wUk
: 先提到柯文哲「涉及」去中國發展ECMO
: https://imgur.com/a/GSDNtRv
: 這段葛特曼表示即使有疑慮，依然將柯文哲列為嫌疑犯
: https://imgur.com/a/0yAYamY
: 柯文哲是為了推廣機器，中國人參加研討會是為了賺錢
: https://imgur.com/a/9AZUOLC
: 不論一開始立意是否良善，中國拿ECMO來亂搞
: 所以柯文哲參加了「地獄研討會」
: https://imgur.com/a/QbtXFko
: 「台灣」是共犯結構，可以決定未來
: 葛特曼表示他也被許多人攻擊
: https://imgur.com/a/2eeC6Ko
: 所以台北市民，請幫中共出聲，向全世界展現你們的勇氣
: 我先說結論
: 葛特曼本人看起來也知道柯文哲是去幫美力敦推廣ECMO
: 但研討會中有幾個醫生拿ECMO亂搞，所以柯文哲是共犯嫌疑
: 而葛特曼認為ECMO會在中國被用做活摘器官牟取暴利
: 因此看來不太同意中國人擁有使用ECMO的機會
: 以下聽證會全文
: Westminster
: 3rd Round Table Briefing on Organ Harvesting in China
: Ethan Gutmann
: 16 October, 2018
: 英國西敏寺大教堂
: 中國強摘器官的第三次發佈會
: 伊森‧葛特曼
: 2018 年 10 月 16 日
: Thank you.
: I’ll be speaking about Taiwan today, but I want to begin with four stubborn
: facts.
: 謝謝，我今天會講到台灣，但我想先提到四點不可否認的事實
: 1) Our report, Bloody Harvest/The Slaughter: an Update, released in 2016,
: showed that China is not performing 10,000 or 15,000 transplants per year as
: Beijing claims, but 60,000 to 100,000 transplants a year. Huang Jiefu, China’
: s spokesman on the organ harvesting issue recently embraced that volume. He
: says that China will be doing 50,000 transplants in a few years. Where will
: the organs come from?
: 我們在 2016 年發布的報告《血腥的器官摘取/大屠殺：更新版》顯示，中國絕不只像北
: 京宣稱的每年進行 10,000 至 15,000 次的器官移植，而是高達 60,000 到100,000 件。
: 中國政府在器官移植議題上的發言人黃潔夫最近也基本承認了這個數量，他說中國在幾年
: 內就會達到每年 50,000 件器官移植的數量，這些器官都哪裡來的？
: 2) Over the last year, Beijing has blood-tested approximately 15 million
: Uyghurs – every man, woman and child in Xinjiang.
: 在過去一年中，北京政府從超過 1,500 萬維吾爾族人身上抽取了血液樣本，包含新疆的
: 每個男人、女人、小孩
: 3) As I speak, over one million Uyghurs are in “Re-education Camps.”
: 在當下，超過一百萬維吾爾族人被關在所謂「再教育營」中
: 4) And the CCP are building 9 crematoriums in Xinjiang. The first one in
: Urumqi
: has just opened. It has 50 security guards.
: 中共還在新疆建立 9 個火葬場，第一個剛剛在烏魯木齊開始營運，光是那一個就駐紮了
: 50 名保安人員
: We cannot - I cannot - stop Beijing, any more than a monk on the West coast
: of Ireland could stop the Vikings from pillaging European civilization. My
: job is to compile an accurate history. So, I am going to examine one factor -
: one among many - that I believe contributed to the current situation.
: 我不能阻止中共，就像當年在愛爾蘭西岸旁觀的僧人無法停止維京人橫掃歐洲文明一樣，
: 但我的工作是要把歷史準確的陳述出來。今天我要講一個很關鍵的重點，這是我覺得促成
: 了今天器官活摘現狀的重要因素。
: It’s a medical technology known as ECMO. Extracorporeal membrane
: oxygenation. And a man named Dr. Ko Wen-je, third from the right in this
: photograph of an ECMO conference at Wuxi Hospital in 2008. Dr. Ko is
: currently mayor of Taipei. Dr. Ko’s involvement in ECMO goes back to at
: least 2000.
: 那就是叫做葉克膜（ECMO）的技術，還有一個叫做柯文哲的醫生，就是這張照片右邊數來
: 第三人，這是在 2008 年無錫市醫院舉辦的葉克膜研討會上拍攝的照片。柯醫師現在已經
: 成了台北市的市長，柯醫師從最早 2000 年就開始涉及到中國的葉克膜發展。
: In 2008, Dr. Ko told me in an interview that he knew first-hand about Falun
: Gong organ harvesting in at least one hospital in China back in 2005 – and
: that account of the interview, which was agreed on by both parties in
: writing, is now in my book, The Slaughter.
: 柯文哲在 2008 年的一次訪談中告訴我，他最早在 2005 年就親自知道，中國至少有一間
: 醫院在活摘法輪功學員的器官。這場訪談現在被記錄在我的書《屠殺》裡，而且我們雙方
: 當年都同意了我出版的內容。
: That account will never change. But my view of Dr. Ko? That has changed.
: 書裡的內容永遠不會改變，但我對柯文哲的觀感已經徹底改變了。
: As I discovered shortly before I went to Taiwan to promote the Mandarin
: publication of my book, Dr. Ko was at this conference only three months
: before our interview　in 2008. I cannot un-see the picture. And I cannot
: un-see the schedule for the conference that Ko participated in.
: 在我最近出發到台灣推廣我的書中譯本之前，我發現柯文哲在 2008 年曾經參與了那場葉
: 克膜研討會，而且就在我們訪談進行的三個月前。那張研討會的合照讓我看了想忘都忘不
: 掉，我也不會忘記研討會的會議行程表，顯示柯參與其中
: Many Taiwanese researchers are far more equipped to investigate this
: conference than I am. And in fact, my own findings on this conference has
: already been surpassed by Falun Gong researchers. But if I use sources I
: trust - the 2016 Update with Kilgour and Matas, which I co-wrote, and
: documents from the World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun
: Gong, which I co-edited – I can say a few words about the hospitals and
: individuals on this schedule.
: 許多在台灣研究這個議題的人都比我更有能力進一步調查這場葉克膜研討會，事實上法輪
: 功的研究者已經超越了我自己收集到這個研討會的資料。但光就我在 2016 年與大衛· 麥
: 塔斯和大衛· 喬高一同撰寫出版的報告，我可以講講這場研討會上出現的醫院和醫生。
: Every individual and hospital that is suspected to have been involved in the
: organ harvesting of political and religious prisoners is highlighted in red.
: Although there are ambiguities about Dr. Ko’s activities in China, for
: simplicity, I have also highlighted Ko Wen-je’s name in red. Ko was the only
: non-mainlander to give a presentation. He presents at the 12:00 session.
: 我們在這裡把每個懷疑曾涉嫌對政治和宗教良心犯進行器官活摘的個人和醫院都用紅體字
: 標註起來，儘管我們對於柯文哲在中國究竟做了什麼還有疑慮，我們也先把他的名子改成
: 紅色。柯文哲在當天中午 12 點進行了講座
: This schedule is a sea of red. I’ll just go down the list in order, starting
: with theconference venue:
: 可以看出，在這場研討會演講的許多人都有活摘器官嫌疑
: ‧ Wuxi People’s Hospital was closely examined in our 2016 update because it
: is exclusively approved for lung transplants - and yet we know it also
: carries out eight other types - kidney, liver, heart, pancreas, cornea, stem
: cell, bone marrow, and vascular grafts. Because Wuxi claims to have completed
: more than half of all lung transplant surgeries in China, we suspect that
: some of those lungs are from Falun Gong.
: ‧ 我們在 2016 年的更新報告中特別觀察了無錫市人民醫院，該院不只獲得獨特的肺移
: 植許可，還進行其他八種移植手術，腎臟、肝臟、心臟、胰臟、角膜、幹細胞、骨髓、和
: 人工血管。因為無錫市人民醫院宣稱他們進行超過全中國一半數量的肺移植手術，我們懷
: 疑法輪功學員是肺來源之一。
: ‧ Chen Zhonghua participated in multi-organ extractions from 65 “donors”
: from January 2000 to August 2006. When Chen ran the Wuhan Tongji hospital
: institute of organ transplantation in 2006, the hospital was asked if it
: could perform live organ transplantation from Falun Gong prisoners. The
: Kidney Transplant department replied: “Sure, it’s no problem…When you are
: ready, you can come over directly and we will discuss it in detail.”
: ‧ 陳忠華從 2000 年 1 月到 2006 年 8 月對 65 個「器官捐贈者」進行了多個器官同
: 時移除的手術。在 2006 年，陳忠華還是武漢同濟醫院器官移植研究所的所長的時
: 候，海外的調查人員打電話向醫院詢問他們是否可以取得法輪功學員器官的移植時，
: 該醫院的腎臟移植部門回覆「沒問題啊，當你準備好時，到我們醫院來跟我們進一
: 步討論」
: ‧ Liu Deruo: Department of Surgery in the China-Japan Friendship Hospital. 7
: cases of single lung transplantation from brain-dead "donors” – a euphemism
: for live organ harvesting - before 2008. The hospital is a common destination
: for wealthy Japanese “organ tourists.”
: ‧ 這是劉德若，中日友好醫院的外科主任醫師，在 2008 年前進行過 7 次的肺移植手術
: ，都是從腦死的所謂「器官捐贈者」身上取得，通常那就意味著被器官活摘的受害者。中
: 日友好醫院是日本「器官旅客」常來接受移植的熱門醫院。
: ‧ Chen Jingyu, the “No.1 Lung Transplant Surgeon in China.” Extracted
: lungs from 129 "donors" from 2002 to 2011. By 2014, Chen was doing up to five
: lung transplants per day. Taught perfusion preservation to 30 hospitals in 10
: cities and provinces. If I am not mistaken, that’s Dr. Ko on the left, and
: Dr. Chen on the right.
: ‧ 接下來是陳靜瑜，號稱「中國肺移植手術第一人」，2002 年到 2011 年間從「捐贈者
: 」身上取出了 129 個肺臟。到 2014 年為止，陳靜瑜每天平均做五個肺移植手術，他向
: 10 個城市和省分的 30 間醫院教導灌注保鼎x的專業技術。陳靜瑜應該
: 就是照片右邊那位，而柯文哲就在左邊。
: ‧ Fuwai Hospital, number 1 in heart transplants. Song Yunhu is the chief
: surgeon.
: ‧ 北京阜外醫院，這個醫院進行中國最多的心臟移植，宋雲虎是主任醫師
: ‧ Shanghai Chest Hospital, Gao Chengxin. The most bilateral lung transplants
: in China to date. Dr. Han Baohui, director of pulmonary medicine at Shanghai
: Chest Hospital, reported classmate Zhao Bin to the police for practicing
: Falun Gong. Mr. Zhao was arrested in April 2012 and was tortured to death at
: a Shanghai facility on October 19, 2013.
: ‧ 接下來是上海市胸科醫院的高成新，進行了中國最多的雙肺移植手術。該院的肺內科
: 主任韓寶惠韓寶惠，曾向當局告密自己的同學趙斌修煉法輪功。趙斌在 2012 年4 月被捕
: ，2013 年 10 月 19 日在上海的監獄被摧殘致死
: ‧ Chen Liangwen, VP of Fujian Medical University Union Hospital, extracted
: hearts from 111 brain-dead "donors” - average age about 25 years, no
: cardiovascular diseases. Warm ischemia time of 0-15 minutes, suggesting
: pre-scheduled live organ harvesting.
: ‧ 福建醫科大學附屬協和醫院副院長陳良萬，他破了 16 個「中國第一」紀錄，從 111
: 個腦死的「捐贈者」取出心臟，平均壽命 25 歲，都沒有心臟疾病，熱缺血時間為 0-15
: 分鐘，這又是另一項紀錄，說明了是事先計畫好了的器官活摘
: ‧ Wang Chunsheng. Director of Cardiac Surgery, Zhongshan Hospital in
: Shanghai, Shanghai’s premier organ transplant center. From 2000 to 2011,
: Wang extracted hearts from 298 "donors”: average age 27 years; no
: cardiovascular problems. Since 2007, 238 live hearts have been extracted at
: Zhongshan.
: ‧ 王春生，上海中山醫院的心臟外科主任。從 2000 到 2011 年，王從 298 名「捐贈者
: 」身上取出心臟，平均壽命 27 歲，沒有心臟疾病歷史。2007 年以來，他從取出了 238
: 個心臟。
: ‧ Here is a recorded phone call to Zhongshan from 2006:
: Investigator: … So how long do I have to wait [for organ transplant surgery]?
: Doctor: About a week after you come…
: Investigator: Is there the kind of organs that come from Falun Gong? I heard
: that
: they are very good.
: Doctor: All of ours are those types.Here’s a quote from Tan Yunshan,
: director of Zhongshan Hospital’s liver disease department in 2015. “All the
: donor livers are directly extracted at the source. Because we do the
: extraction ourselves and have access to the original information of the donor
: organ, we would know for sure whether a donor liver can be used or not…We don
: ’t care whether it’s from a Falun Gong practitioner or not. We don’t get
: involved in politics. As doctors, we only care about the donor liver, about
: whether it meets the requirements of transplantation. If it meets the
: requirements, we don’t care who it’s from.”
: ‧ 下面是對中山醫院肝調查的電話錄音:
: 調查員：要等多久呀？
: 醫生：來了一個禮拜左右就可以做了。
: 調查員：有沒有這種煉法輪功的這種提供的，這種提供的說是很好……
: 醫生：我們這兒的都是這種「所有捐獻肝都是直接從源頭獲取的。 因為我們自己進行提
: 取，並且能夠獲得捐贈器官的原始信息，我們就能確定捐獻者的肝臟是否可以使用… 我
: 們不關心它是否來自法輪功學員。我們不參與政治。作為醫生，我們只關心捐贈的肝臟，
: 關心它是否符合移植的要求。如果它符合要求，我們不關心它來自誰。」
: ‧ Meng Xu, founder of the Beijing Heart Transplant Centre. From 1992 to
: 2006, Meng participated in the extraction of hearts from 51 “donors”:
: males; age range 21-43 years. No cardiovascular diseases. Warm ischemia time,
: 3-8 minutes. Meng has independently completed nearly 10,000 surgeries, with
: over 800 operations every year.
: ‧ 這是孟旭，北京心臟移植中心的創始人，從 1992 年到 2006 年他參與了摘除 51個「
: 器官捐贈者」的心臟，都是男性，年齡 21-43 歲，沒有心臟疾病歷史，熱缺血時間為
: 3-8 分鐘。孟旭獨自完成了將近 10,000 次手術，每年都有超過 800 次。
: I am going to skip ahead because we are short on time.
: 因為時間緣故，我在這裡要跳過一些內容。
: ‧ Last entry; Tianjin Central Hospital. Estimated to do 5000 transplants
: annually, essentially half of the entire transplant volume of China,
: according to Chinese official numbers, for over a decade. Over half of its
: patients are said to be foreign organ tourists.
: ‧ 最後一個是天津市第一中心醫院，估計每年有 5000 件器官移植，十幾年來幾乎占據
: 官方統計全國移植數量的一半。過半數在這裡接受器官移植的是外國人。
: So what was this conference about? Well, as the conference subtitle suggests:
: Medtronic ECMO. Medtronic is an American company based in Minnesota. And, Dr.
: Ko sells Medtronic ECMO machines and expertise on the Mainland.
: 這個研討會的重點是什麼？為什麼這些人會來參加呢？當然是為了葉克膜而來。柯文哲是
: 為了推銷美敦力的葉克膜機器而到中國大陸。
: ECMO can be used during harvesting, but the bottom line is that it prolongs
: the opportunity to use a lung or a heart up to eight hours. As Dr. Ko has
: pointed out, ECMO saves lives.
: 葉克膜可以用來作為活摘器官的工具，它可以將肺臟或心臟的壽命延長最長達 8 小時，
: 如同柯所說的，葉克膜可以拯救生命
: Indeed, it does. In Taiwan, in America, in Great Britain, in Japan,
: Australia. But in China, with a nearly inexhaustible supply of religious and
: political prisoners, do you think the majority of people at this
: 的確，葉克膜在台灣、美國、英國、日本、澳洲都發揮了拯救生命的角色，但在中國，因
: 為有著幾乎無數的宗教和政治良心犯，把葉克膜帶進中國的結果是截然不同的
: ECMO conference were interested in saving lives? I think they were interested
: in making money. From the perspective of that conference, Dr. Ko was valuable
: – until 2008 at least - to the Mainland organ transplant industry in three
: ways:
: 參加這個葉克膜研討會的人是為了想拯救人命而來嗎？我想他們應該是因為想要賺錢而來
: 的。從研討會的角度來看，柯文哲的參與是有價值的，至少到 2008 年為止，柯對於中國
: 大陸器官移植產業的可利用處有三點：
: 1) As a conduit to “organ tourists” from Taiwan
: 扮演一個中間人的角色，讓台灣較為有錢的「器官旅客」前往中國
: 2) As a salesman of Medtronic ECMO equipment to the Mainland
: 扮演一個推銷員的角色，推銷美敦力的葉克膜器材到中國大陸
: 3) As a teacher of ECMO techniques.
: 扮演一個教師的角色，教導中國如何使用葉克膜技術
: ECMO means that if you are harvesting a Falun Gong, or a Uyghur, or a
: Tibetan, you can make a lot more money from harvesting a single person. Here
: are the prices. And here is a picture of five Falun Gong refugees.
: 如果你在對法輪功學員、維吾爾人、或西藏人進行器官活摘，你可以利用葉克膜技術，來
: 增加活摘一個人器官可以得到的利潤。這張就是器官的價格表，而這張照片就是五名法輪
: 功的難民。
: All of the women in this picture were in labor camp. All were tortured. One
: was sexually abused. And the woman on the left, Jing Tian, was examined for
: her organs. Before ECMO, if she was harvested while still alive, and tissue
: matched to foreign organ tourists who were present at the same hospital, she
: was worth $200,000 USD, maybe $250,000 USD, if we throw in the corneas. Let’
: s split the difference and call it $225,000 USD.
: 所有這張照片裡的女子都被關進勞改營過，她們全都被刑求過。在勞改營中她們其中一人
: 遭受了性侵害，而最左邊這名女士京田（音譯）還被檢驗過器官。如果她在沒有葉克膜的
: 情況下被器官活摘了，而器官在醫院被配給外國來的器官移植旅客，她的器官總價值會是
: 大約$200,000 美元，如果加上眼角膜或許可以值$200,000 美元，姑且估算為$225,000
: 美元好了。
: After ECMO? Jing Tian was worth $680,000 USD. And I think everyone at that
: ECMO conference in 2008 understood this calculation.
: 如果利用葉克膜呢？京田身上的器官價值會增加到$680,000 美元，大概增加了兩倍。我
: 認為參加那個 2008 年葉克膜研討會的人，都非常清楚這個數字代表什麼。
: In short, no matter what the original intentions were, bringing ECMO to China
: created a perverse incentive to kill Falun Gong, Uyghurs, House Christians
: and Tibetans. We don’t know how many. We don’t know exactly how much Dr. Ko
: contributed to ECMO in China. Yet I have no doubt that ECMO accelerated the
: killing of innocent people. And I have no doubt that ECMO is a contributing
: factor to the spectacular growth of the transplant industry in China - and
: the spectacular human rights crisis that we see in Xinjiang today.
: 簡單說，無論最初把葉克膜引進中國的用意為何，它所帶來的結果就是讓中國有更多殺害
: 法輪功學員、維吾爾人、西藏人的邪惡動機。我們不知道柯文哲對於中國的葉克膜技術到
: 底幫助了多少，但我毫無疑問肯定把葉克膜引進中國造成了更多無辜的人被殺害。我也毫
: 無疑問肯定葉克膜導致中國器官移植產業的急速發展，還有現在在新疆發生的巨大的人權
: 危機。
: But is all this fair to Taiwan? Dr. Ko is the respected mayor of Taipei. He’
: s running for reelection. So, does Taiwan really have to deal with questions
: about what Dr. Ko was doing at the conference-from-hell a decade ago? In
: conclusion then, I want to explain why I think it is my responsibility as a
: writer, and as a co-founder of the International Coalition to End Transplant
: Abuse in China - or ETAC for short – to ask these questions.
: 但講這些對台灣公平嗎？柯醫生現在是受人歡迎的台北市市長，他還在競選連任，台灣應
: 該質疑柯過往在這個「地獄研討會」中究竟做了什麼嗎？我想說的是，我作為一個作者，
: 還有做為「全球制止中國器官強摘聯盟」（ETAC）的發起人之一，我必須問一些問題。
: One of the clearest voices in ETAC - a voice of constant wisdom, calm, and
: clarity - is that of David Matas. So, when some transplant patients warned us
: that our work was being used by anti-vax conspiracy theorists, I proposed
: that ETAC begin promoting voluntary organ donation. Matas stopped me short
: with a single phrase: “avoid mission creep.” And he was right; groups
: dilute their strength by adopting other agendas. And ETAC’s primary mission
: is to save lives in China.
: 全球制止中國器官強摘聯盟裡面，一向最有遠見、最冷靜、而又最清楚的專家是大衛· 麥
: 塔斯。當一些器官移植的病患開始提醒我們，說我們的研究被一些反疫苗接踵的陰謀論製
: 造者濫用來作為假證據時，我當時提議聯盟可以開始鼓勵自願的器官捐贈註冊，大衛· 麥
: 塔斯則馬上制止我，他說「不要超越我們最開始的任務初衷」。現在想起來他是對的，我
: 們的聯盟若是開始涉及其他的任務便會翻散注意力，而我們最主要的任務還是要在中國拯
: 救生命。
: And yet: David Matas recently compared organ harvesting of political and
: religious prisoners in China to a virus, a virus which does not end at China’
: s borders, but has begun to infect pockets of the global medical community.
: 大衛· 麥塔斯還將中國對於政治犯和宗教良心犯的器官活摘比喻為一種「病毒」，也就是
: 說這種「病毒」並不會影響中國國內，而是會散布到全球各地的醫界。
: Think of the Vatican conferences on human trafficking, where China’s organ


這樣葛大記者的論點很清楚了啦

柯醫生就是罪該萬死

因為柯醫生發揮愛心  將葉克膜技術推廣給救治正常中國民眾的同時

他明知與會醫生有參與活摘的罪惡工作  卻沒有對此做任何行動

沒有偷藏技術不給中國民眾被救  也沒有在會上譴責中國  更沒有帶炸彈把這些壞醫生炸死

所以這位專門躲在舒適圈寫書  除此之外什麼都沒做的大記者譴責柯醫生什麼都沒做

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